Northern Prairie Secular Society

Not sure if this site is really appropriate, but a certain Mr. Micah Reuber suggested moving it here. Sad, as it seems out of place for the rather peaceful comments already posted.

1) We’re not 90% conservative. It only seems that way today because of the dynamics mentioned above and that Tim seems to want to maintain.
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Why does it seem that way to you, because I dare mention certain observations? Actually I am pretty indifferent, but strident views to the contrary is sure to help prevent seeing how many moderate and conservative freethinkers are out there. As a new resident, my views are far more open than you suggest. I have not been a fan of much what the Republican party has done, or has not done, in the last 20 years. What are your views to match, to put on the table?
90% basically conservative compared to “According to a August 1, 2011 poll, 11% of American voters identify themselves as “very conservative”, 30% as “conservative”, 36% as “moderate”, 15% as “liberal”, and 6% as “very liberal”.[16] These percentages have been fairly constant since 1990.[17]” Conservativism in America/Wikipedia, and polls in general.

I included conservative of either fiscal or social policy, as neither gets much of any representation in this group, so even in the US as a rule, 60% is rather possible what they believe at home as opposed to forcing others to adopt by law, something I have seen quoted. Surprisingly, Blacks and Hispanics are a good deal more conservative in many social issues, though this is not much an issue here in ND. Strongly or moderately liberal in the US has held steady at 20 – 25% for the last twenty years, a distinct yet very vocal minority, and in North Dakota probably 5% or less in both areas of social and economic liberalism.

2) The claim that North Dakota is “historically conservative” ignores a lot of ND history conservative like to forget. No state has more of a left wing socialist success than we have. The Non-Partisan League put their candidates in Republican primaries NOT because the NPL was conservative as Tim said, but because when the NPL candidates won the primary election they’d then run as Republicans in the general election where Republican voters would vote for NPL socialists because they had an R after their names. Leftists were pretty creative and courageous in 1916.
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Successfully Shanghaied in part, in other mostly due to the nature of farming, and as you say very creative like Tommy Douglas in Canada. I happen to like the idea that nearly everyone kept their farm in the Great Depression, and am not at all fan of strong arm bankers.

I agree on the historical economic liberalism part, partially because farming used to be much more of a collective effort (e,g, Israeli Kibbutz were extremely socialist if not communistic for over a hundred years until very recently, and all by free will, an unobtainable efficient feat in general city life). Yet socially, North Dakota was normally much more conservative than elsewhere.

Lynn Frazier was a farmer elected in a special time. Consider that the farmer was normally broadsided with high rail and milling costs, close to gouging. And that Germans were being daily vilified in common press, despite being unique in the US making up a plural majority and about a majority in the state. Prices and others issues were going all sort of directions. Socialists and Communists are very creative, and known to be expert negotiators. They simply can not maintain production with out force. There is more to it, but Frazier was the first of two Governors forced out of office by recall. Socialists were frequent in Minnesota/Wisconsin after the 1848 failed European rebelion, but most people in N.D. were simple farmers. NPL used the Republican platform for some 40 years, a long host period.

The ability of Socialists and Communists to have a couple of their members and radicalize a union, political movement, or other has always been awesome and an issue to be reckoned with. They seem to do best in times of trouble, but are not able to maintain the rate except with extreme levels of force. They also morph into all sorts of opportunistic niches, like the Republican Party/NPL. This is not a good attribute in my opinion.
In a group as NPSS, the liberal personal freedom issue would loom larger, and politically nationally ND being a core of social conservative views did not come around until the last 40 years much, as the country changed. ND was briefly the divorce capital of the US in the late 1880 I recall though. Otherwise, conservative social mores have pretty much always been more a staid issue. What is conservative for America does change over time.